The big fat COVID-19 thread.

The update was harsher than I thought it was going to be but I don’t know what the alternative is other than the Swedish approach of just give up and let it do its thing. If we accept that we aren’t OK with that, which I’m not but I know others may be, I don’t see what choice we have but to lockdown until numbers are so low that we can control them when they do appear.

He has laid out what stages people will move to and when he hopes we can move to them based on the number of cases. We all know that he can’t give guarantees and doing so is just going to set himself up for failure later when he has to backtrack.

In a perfect world, we could reduce the restrictions and rely on people to do the right thing. However, it only takes a few idiots to ensure that the numbers start to rise again.

And there are plenty of Idiots still about. Another party near me last night, same place had one a fortnight ago…People without masks out shopping yesterday. Then there’s the protestors.

Problem is that those numbers will yoyo and contact tracing is below minimal. He’s laying out an indefinite plan without proper foundations like contact tracing and containment. That’s the issue. Childcare is back, so at least there is that. Some pressure off. He didn’t announce in any clear way when industries are reopening or what sectors. He didn’t have clarity on path forward for hospitality… He did not deliver what he promised to deliver, even though he had more than enough time to do so. That is not a plan or strategy, it’s a bunch of buzz words, if we are being honest here. He’s applying remedial controls without telling anyone what specific risk they are mitigating. What residual risk will be, what the likelihoods are… Nothing. That’s the problem. He’s way over his head. If I were to deliver a strategy or a plan like that, without specifics, I’d get fired.

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…and he excluded everyone from collaborative decision making process, huge issue. He has lopsided advisors, who have blinkers on (medical practitioners), yet no other sectors. He asked for a blank check without a plan to back his request up. He asked for review with less than 24 hours (of course greens stepped up, whenever a dictator needs power ay), he presents numbers that are unconfirmed, there are so many more things that are wrong here… Gardening will be allowed… Yeah, after Jimmy said there’s a multi million dollar damages lawsuit being filled, suddenly mowing is alright. So much inconsistent advice and actions, it’s beyond sad, sort funny, but not ha-ha funny, more like clown getting hit by a car sort of funny.

What do you mean? They have thousands of people calling to follow up contacts and police are door knocking everyone who tests positive. Obviously they got overwhelmed when the numbers rose quickly and contact tracers are playing catch up with the clock against them. What do you think contact tracing should look like?

It isn’t indefinite, he has clearly said we move from one stage to the next when the number allow it and at the end of that process, we are in as good a position as we can be in without fully eliminating the virus. He can’t give specific timelines because they are not realistic and cannot be guarenteed.

Agreed

Yes he did, hospitality will continue to operate as take-away and delivery only until they re-open in stage three where they will have take-away, outdoor dining and social distancing.

Yes, he is. Who wouldn’t be? It’s not like he was expecting this and training for it.

As he well may.

How do we know this? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I don’t know.

Ah yes, environmentalist politicians and their classic and well know love of dictators.

Which numbers are you referring to?

I don’t think he’s perfect or doing the best job possible, but I also can’t imagine any other Victorian politician doing it better, and especially not the Liberal options we have at the moment. I suspect that this is the end of his career and they he will either resign after it is done, get rolled by his party or get voted out in 2022.

The fact of the matter is that I haven’t seen anyone come up with a better plan to open up which does not involve a third wave or the acceptance of high rates of infection and death.

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No some big corporation or Chinese company will employ him as a consultant. Plus he gets all of his benefits from the government as well as his pension so I highly doubt that it will bother him to much.

I’m not ignoring you @Nomis, I’m in the reloading cave. But I will weigh in :stuck_out_tongue:

Lol, I didn’t think for a second you wouldn’t.

Imagine quarantining the ill and the infected…:thinking:

Why would you do that when you can just quarantine everybody else instead

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It would be great, but when there are asymptomatic carriers how do you identify them?
Our death rates are low because our health system has not been overloaded.

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Neither has NSW. Shouldnt they be in the same lockdown situation as Victoria based on the daily infection rate?

I have previously said that I think other areas will experience a hard 2nd wave. I hope I am wrong. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision on statewide policy.

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Contact tracing needs to be done within 24 hours, start to finish, not ‘at least’ 72 hours. It’s a pathetic effort and has been called out during the inquest by his ex-CHO (perhaps that’s why he is an ex). Furthermore, the person needs to volunteer for it… Now that Dan made it a crime to be out, out for some time, out for some reason, etc. I don’t think most people would submit to tracing for fear of incriminating themselves. You are finding those who are doing the right thing; and missing the entire section of those who did something ‘illegal’ (sounds ridiculous).

He gave nothing in terms of plan, when industries can open, what numbers, how, when. This is called a plan. He did not deliver it, regardless of what you think about guarantee… This is what’s required and he had more than enough time to do so. Plans change, everyone understand that, but he chose not to provide one at all, just swings and roundabouts.

He did not in fact provided plans for hospitality, because outdoor dining is governed by space and local councils, which he didn’t mention. Can they have full space? 1/3? 1/4, 100%? What about car parking in those areas and access, what about distancing for other shops in the area? It was all ‘maybes’ and not factual. Again, useless. And ‘continue’ with takeaway is not a plan, it’s a statement to current state, NOT a defined path forward (AKA a plan he promised to deliver), that one would expect from a plan.

Plan is something like this: we go to the end of this street, then we turn left.
He delivered: we might go somewhere and maybe we might turn in either direction.

I think your definition of a plan and mine are very different. strategy is a bit more high level, but a plan is something that includes details.

Singles “bubble” - what the hell is that? Why can’t my mum, who lives with my dad visit her grandkids who are isolated, but Bob’s partner who lives in a share house with her roomies, can can visit Bob for a shag. Do you not see the stupidity of that approach? This is who is leading us. Personally, I am terrified.

Any other state and territory.

Actually, there are pandemic plans, where are they? Why is it not being used? What is it? Again, wrong on all accounts.

Excluding industries…
Because everyone is stating that they weren’t consulted and if they were, those statements would get called out. Again, totalitarian power hungry approach with blinkers on. completely opaque. Perhaps the correct term is egotistical.

First, deaths, which are attributed to covid, but not tested. For example, deaths in aged care are written of as ‘due covid’, if pops sneezes the wrong way, they are not tested. Makes you think, ay.
Average deaths at the same time last year and a year before that. Just telling me that 100 people died means nothing without context and comparison.

The infection rates… I am beginning to have doubts due to contact tracing, like what you are seeing now could be weeks old. What’s the severity?

Hospitalisation rates (again, with context, compared to same time last year) is it 0.001% or 1% - this context is really important.

There are two things here. A statement of fact and an assumption. An assumption is ‘could anyone do better’? No idea, don’t care, it’s not relevant to current state, he’s at the helm. The statement of fact is that he is way over his head, he is the primary cause of the initial outbreak and he doing a very poor job of managing it. So there’s that. If he’s (and his ministers, who are an absolute disgrace if you watch question time) fuck up so many times and so consistently, perhaps it’s time to admit that you’re a fuckup.

It’s not fact of the matter. It’s an outcome of opaque process. Not seeing something doesn’t mean it’s the case. It could mean (and right now looks likely), that you are being denied an option to see alternatives. He excluded everyone outside of his circle in the decision making process, etc. He requested 12 months of emergency powers WITHOUT A PLAN or strategy. That should give you a hint as to why you are not seeing things. He is running in emergency powers mode, i.e. he dictates, everyone else listens. There could very well be better plans if others were consulted, but they were excluded. And to top it off, there may have been and he just rejected them because it didn’t fit his own ego, process, career plan, popularity? Fact of the matter is, it’s not for the lack of plans, it’s due to the lack of transparency.

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Totally agree re the PLAN and the level of detail. It makes you wonder just how much thought was actually put in. I was blown away at the lack of professionalism of the PLAN and the delivery of it. For someone that has stood up day after day and done interviews and faced questions on this topic for how long. He should be well briefed and be able to nail a delivery to the press rather than look like a bumbling idiot giving the same response " Of soon" or I will get back to you on that " I will get you an answer tomorrow" which he very rarely does with any substance of fact. Its not like he is on his own having to do all the prep work either he has a huge hand picked staff with next to endless salary cap when it comes to this Pandemic.
Private enterprises have more detail in 5 and 10 year business plans and strategies than was shown yesterday.

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Mcgowan would be behaving just like Andrews if he didn’t have half a continent, one border and only two roads in between the other 90% of the population.

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This the point, entirely.
Everyone is terrified and for different reasons.
Some because grandma might die, some because they are immunosuppressed and some because their loved ones are immunosuppressed. Some because their lively hood is threatened like never before, some because the total chaos is just too much to bare.

When you’re terrified, it’s easier to have someone to blame.

I haven’t had time to be across what is happening with you guys in Vic but I do feel for you all. There are so many ways this could be handled and I can’t see that anyone has a clear idea which would be best or which combination might be workable.

Andrews may not have handled this in the best way possible but I think @juststarting touched on something when he mentioned collaborative consultation. There is not enough of it in Australian politics and to see this situation used as an opportunity for political point scoring is abominable. This is the perfect opportunity to discard adversarial politics and find a collaborative way forward.

One thing I am very happy to see in this is the open acceptance of varying ideas and real support coming out of this little community we have going here.
I’m proud of you all! :+1::beers:

Stay strong, you good motherfuckers!

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The rumor mill is cranking it out harder than usual. Andrews to be replaced etc…
This would be okay if the entire Labor party was being replaced, but it could be a lot worse too.

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If it’s out in the public domain now, there’s every chance he’s going to counter it with promises and promotions and ‘nothing’ public is going to happen… Perhaps some ministers will “retire to spend more time with family in these tough times”.

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