I read this thread on Reddit and thought I’d drop it here…
(original: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ausguns/comments/b4qx35/if_by_some_miracle_gun_regulations_are_loosened/)
Question
If by some miracle gun regulations are loosened in Australia, would you support an open/concealed carry permit for handgun owners?
Discuss. Genuinely interested.
N.B.
Keep it civil and factual or I will nuke this thread.
I would, for people who could pass some sort of safe handling course. I
LOL, I know you would, you would drag a cannon around if they let you and a crew of midgets with minimis to setup a perimeter (why midgets? Because that’s how we roll and you know it’s true).
explain your rational
Here’s my response to the thread.
What a sticky question. I loooooooove guns. That said, I am rational too. As most of you are. I know, it’s a deterrent and I know it needs to be coupled with at least some tests for fundamental marksmanship. And before anyone jumps on this emotionally, I have nothing against semi or even full auto forearm. A gun is a gun is a gun. With all that in mind, is Australia really at the point where crime is so high and so serious that this is needed? Once this cat is out, it’s out. It’s not coming back in and purely through numbers illegal gun ownership will jump. I’m all for pepper spray and the castle doctrine (at home), but I don’t think Australia is at a point, culturally and through serious crime where concealed carry is justified. For now.
That’s right, I am a complex guy (today I identify as a guy) wrapped in an enigma and some bacon.
I’d make the midgets drag the cannon, I’ve done my time,Lol!
Sure why not, the crims already do, so why not even the tables a little bit, would have to to be some sort of qualification process, including law and ROE along with some first aid training but i’d be for
But do they, really? Take out the outliers, there are extreme cases everywhere and I some how have a feeling that not many are in fact running around with a piece. Those who do are not your garden variety that you would ever encounter. And if that wasn’t the case, you’d know about it very quickly, but I haven’t heard people getting shot over wallets and phones.
Personally I think you are jumping the Gun. The first Question Should be about is self defense allowed to be used with a firearm. That has to be approved before any allowing of carrying handguns could be allowed.
I had this conversation with a guy at the rifle club on a road trip. It opens up a real can of worms. As we all know there are people that shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun and even with the current rules most of those people are probably able to get a license. I think sometimes it is only the perception that a firearms license is hard to get that stops them. The people I see that fit into this category are the “thug” type for use of a better word Not sure how to categorize the group I am thinking of. Once a gun is allowed to be used for self defense. How does a gun have to be stored? can it now be stored loaded? Can I have the 303 loaded behind the front door?
I am pro gun but I think the rules we have about them not being used for self defense keep us a lot safer. The current level of just road rage and the level of violence that is sometimes involved is far out of proportion to any indecent that could or should occur with two people driving in separate cars. What if they now both have guns that impulsive rage now turns to murder.
I think I covered, @sungazer.
I think licence is a moot point and the question assumes it’s allowed. It’s only about concealed carry and nothing else. Assume that everything else has been resolved, i.e. hypothetical.
This is pretty clear though:
I am pro gun but I think the rules we have about them not being used for self defense keep us a lot safer. The current level of just road rage and the level of violence that is sometimes involved is far out of proportion to any indecent that could or should occur with two people driving in separate cars. What if they now both have guns that impulsive rage now turns to murder.
Interesting point of view. I wonder how much of that goes on in US, as a litmus test.
While I would personally love to be able to carry/concealed I am with sungazer, I don’t think that the crime here would warrant it. However the rate things are going I don’t think that it would be long before it is.
I have read the statistics where it shows that in states (USA) where it is common to carry the crime rate, shooting/murder in particular, are a lot lower than those states that don’t have it.
As in the example of road rage that sungazer gave and the type of idiots that flip their lids, I can see someone pulling out a gun and start shooting.
This is sort of the example of the group I was thinking about that probably could get a license but probably don’t, thankfully.
I think you are right this level of crim doesn’t use a gun. Now if the law was changed to allow guns for self defense. I think it would be this level of crim that would arm themselves first. It then spirals out of control with the victims that were against guns now arming themselves also for protection.
Thats not the society I really want to live in. hence I am happy with the current Self Defense rules.
Even though if I was the victim of a home evasion I would not hesitate to take any opportunity to protect my family and it would be a decisive action. There are many other everyday items strewn around the home and outside that could be used. They are not planted there for that purpose just happen to be there like cleavers used for cooking in the draw under the chopping bench a tomahawk by the wood pile ect.
I would happily settle for just being able to carry a knife again, not so much for S/D but just all the little things it used to coming handy for.
But in a S/D situation a knife is better than nothing and a mugger /scumbag I’m guessing would rather not get stabbed.
Yes I often forget that you are not allowed to carry a knife. I know in the city they can be really strict booking people for just having a small knife to cut their fruit in the handbag. I dont have a knife on me that often but lately have due to having to feed cows so regularly cutting off the plastic wrap. Easy to forget and go up the street. I would be hoping a country cop would be more understanding.
They are out here too but I have to be very conscious about it when I head into town.
Always got a tool on me besides in Melbourne city ( which i got to maybe a handfull of times a year ) always comes in handy and have never had an issue as so far
I really don’t think that our society is at a point where it is necessary, is it?
I spend over a month per year in the U.S, in states where open carry is permitted.
Their motto is “an armed society is a polite society”. I don’t see it being because of the carry situation.
The folks we meet and interact with are just nice, polite people in general.
Speaking with folks on the subject, it is always amazing how many will reach into a pocket or the console in their car and pull out a handgun. I never ask, but I wonder how many of these people would actually pull it out and use it? I mean, these folk don’t even swear.
Then there is the other ones who when asked why they carry, say that they do so “because it is my constitutional right and I can.”
In all of our time over there I’ve only seen one incident, which actually could have been on an episode of “Cops”. While sitting in a gas station, (sic), we witnessed a tough looking biker pull in only to have 3 or 4 cop cars come screaming in and the cops jump out wth guns drawn on the biker. He just went quietly but it looked a bit hairy for a minute.
We don’t visit the big cities where most of the crime is, the top 5 actually have the strictest gun laws in the country, so maybe that’s why I don’t get it.
Getting back on topic, no, I don’t believe we need personal carry in Australia.
The crims that are getting around with guns are only shooting each other and it is usually about drugs.
They don’t seem to be shooting people for their wallets and phones etc, as has already been said.
I would be in that “because its my right” group if we actually had that right.
Then again having been the victim or a random violent crime when I was younger probably changes my perspective a bit on what crims in Australia are capable of.
So its fine until someone really does get mugged for their phone/wallet? I don’t need any rights until it happens to me? And i’m not having a go at anyone on here either, but its just how i’m interpreting whats being said without any expression and body language… but when it does, Then what, pitchforks and pistols? Having had the apex gang 2 houses down do a hard entry steal cars smash the house up and beat my next door neighbours to a pulp i’m in no doubt what that does to a family and how it effects them years later, the wife was beaten to within an inch of her life and still deals with ptsd. Fighting off 7 blokes with a lamp shade unleas your Jason Bourne isn’t going to work. However possibly access to a firearm won’t help either, it’s just a tool in a toolbox that can be used, and if concealed and the situation calls for it can always stay safetly holstered, some fights are better walked away from to live and fight another day
Yeah, I supose Melbourne is turning into Chicago, but you couldn’t pay me enough to live in the shithole.
While ever you’ve got soft-c*ck politicians pretending it doesn’t happen and police told not to “persecute” them on the grounds of their ethnicity, you’re going to have problems.
I still don’t believe it’s grounds for personal carry, or is it happening a lot more than is reported?
Biggest problem I see is blokes with “small-man” syndrome pulling out their gun and shooting because they "perceive " a threat. I had a conversation once with a bloke who was telling me about an online petition he was getting going for personal carry. When quizzed about why he thought it necessary, the reasons he gave and the longer he talked, the more I was thinking that he would be the last person I would like to have walking around armed. This bloke was your classic “victim”. Everyone was against him, everyone was a threat to him, or so he believed. Arm this bloke? No thanks.
The ultimate goal here is preserving life and not taking it, but its a tricky subject to negotiate…
But then would it fall into the “better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it” category?
I agree with all the above, I mean we all know people who shouldn’t be allowed to use a knife let alone allow them a gun.