Haven’t got any tested loads for 45-70 with 2208 sorry. Only shoot black powder out of my pedersoli highwall.
You might need a faster powder or possibly try with a bit of a crimp and or magnum primers to get a cleaner burn.
I use 2207. 50gr for the 325gr ftx. Not sure how the 500gr would cycle in a lever.
It provides for an accurate and somewhat stout load. It is a 45-70 though, any load that’s reasonably hot will be pretty strong on the shoulder.
what OAL are you loading to JS. i can run the numbers in quickload for you
From a guy that worked in the ADI factory in the testing and quality control area. ADI powders by the way they are manufactured the size shape and construction of each granular do not need magnum primers.
Yeah, to be honest, I don’t think primer or crimp would solve it, I generally crimp alright on cast bullets.
I will get more data, some photos and post here in the next few days. Been a little busy.
Did you have any luck with that?
Uh, apologies, completely forgot.
So basically most load data I saw was a bit suss… 50 to 55gr of AR2208 seemed like a lot of powder for the available volume I had to work with,
Here’s a 500gr slug that I made next to a (very over-crimped) dummy round. As you can see it takes up almost half of the case.
I continued to research and stumbled on this forum/post:
(Can someone confirm that I won't blow my face off? 45-70 load [Archive] - Calguns.net)
Here is a quickload SIMULATION with a 500gr lee bullet:
Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .457, 500, LEE 457-500-F
Useable Case Capaci: 49.510 grain H2O = 3.215 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.700 inch = 68.58 mm
Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm
Powder : IMR 4064Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.273% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms-22.7 79 34.00 1113 1375 14273 2800 68.6 2.171
-20.5 81 35.00 1147 1462 15371 2939 70.3 2.096
-18.2 83 36.00 1182 1552 16546 3079 72.0 2.024
-15.9 86 37.00 1217 1645 17803 3218 73.6 1.955
-13.6 88 38.00 1252 1741 19151 3357 75.2 1.889
-11.4 90 39.00 1288 1841 20595 3496 76.8 1.827
-09.1 93 40.00 1323 1944 22141 3633 78.3 1.767
-06.8 95 41.00 1359 2051 23806 3770 79.8 1.710 ! Near Maximum !
-04.5 97 42.00 1395 2160 25590 3904 81.3 1.655 ! Near Maximum !
-02.3 100 43.00 1431 2274 27509 4036 82.7 1.602 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 102 44.00 1467 2390 29574 4166 84.0 1.552 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.3 104 45.00 1504 2510 31797 4294 85.3 1.504 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5 107 46.00 1540 2633 34194 4417 86.6 1.457 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.8 109 47.00 1577 2760 36782 4538 87.8 1.412 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.1 111 48.00 1613 2890 39579 4654 89.0 1.369 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR4064 is AR2208 equivalent (yes, yes, it’s not the same, but on ADI site it’s listed as equivalent, put your tampons away), anyhow, I thought this is good - check on powder.
Bullet - same as mine.
Barrel, mine is 20" but same same really.
Correction, mine is 18"
I started at 39gr and worked up to 42gr of ADI AR2208 in 0.5 grain increments. I found that all charges were accurate.
I did not observe any signs of pressure for all charges.
As you can see, there is a lot of unburnt powder, this is the same for all charges.
Off hand shooting is fine. Off the bench however, recoil was horrendous from around 40.5 grains. I shot a few more to test all charges, however I did not shoot all 41.5 and 42 grainers off the bench, because recoil was, shall we say, ‘noticeable’.
So, in conclusion:
- Current load data of 50+ grains - I call bullshit on that, with caveat of seating depth. Bigger COAL could probably accomodate a little bit more powder (but only a little), but my H&R SB2 would not chamber this pills when seated above the max COAL spec.
- I did not want to compress loads, however, came close. Compressed, perhaps, but with current results it’s useless and brings us to the last point;
- ADI AR2208 is wrong powder for this bullet/barrel combination.
For future searches:
Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .457, 500, LEE 457-500-F
Rifle: New England (H&R) SB2 Handy Rifle
Barrel: 18"
Powder used: ADI AR2208 (varget)
I was loading 570gn cbe gas checks on top of ( i believe ) 40gn of ar 2206h in both my baikal double and my 1895. Quickload said ( allegedly) i was getting 1550fps. Recoil was quite manageable
Adventures in 45-70 land and 18" barrel continues.
Tried a few loads from 39 to 40 grains, in steps… Recoil is stout but manageable, after 40 rounds, most from bench (and about the same worth of slugs) I did have a tender shoulder. Close, but not as bad as 2208 feel.
Accurate.
I am still getting powder left in the barrel. Not as much as 2208, but it’s there and very noticeable. I think, most likely due to (a) maybe, 2006H is slower for the quantity used and my barrel length; and (b) using large rifle primers, where magnum primers would have done the trick.
At 40gr of 2206H cases and primers showed no signs of pressure whatsoever.
Next steps, I will try:
- Test with the same charge, but swap from large rifle to magnum large rifle primers; and
- Test midrange load using 2207 with large rifle primers; and
- Test midrange load using 2207 with magnum large rifle primers.
I am fairly certain there’s a good load somewhere here, between 1 and 3. After which, will see if I can chronograph this bitch. I am determined to get those 500gr+ zombie-dinosaur slayers working!
Interesting observation
Max calculated charge of Trail Boss (that’s unique to my case capacity and my seating depth) is actually noticeable too, unlike in any other calibre I ran TB through. Something around 308 off-hand type of feeling. Little unexpected and surprising. I expected something below 223 felt recoil. Anyhow, just an observation.
Maybe there’s simply not enough barrel length to get a complete burn on such a beefy cartridge…
Have you played around with it any more?
AR 2207 is an often recommended powder for .45/70, but I have to say I haven’t been impressed with 405gr LRNFP projectiles using pretty much any variation of the lead-suitable published loads (27-31gr).
Funnily enough Unique seemed to work quite well, but honestly I’ve been getting the best results with Trailboss.
I think you are 100% correct. I am certain it’s the short barrel.
I got a bottle of 2207 and magnum primers. Just haven’t had the chance to load it.
2208 is not it, to be honest, even if it all burned up, the recoil for a heavy hitter with that powder is beyond what it should be. However, in the name of science, I will try magnum primer and smaller 2208 load.
…but will be testing 2207 with standard and magnum primers, see how we go.
I have used TrailBoss, pushing 500gr projectile, works fine. But not enough oomph for fun at max TB charge.
Re: bullets, I am going to try some 300-something grain Hornady, I have a box of that. And 500gr cast - see how we go. Will have some time over the break to load and have a go. I like these experiments.
Sounds like a plan with the TB and lighter bullets. 200g is a significant difference so YB might throw them further than 20m… lol…
Is 2207 the fasted powder listed for it?
No, I am not going back to TB for 45-70… TB is reserved for milsurps that I don’t want to stress more than they should be.
re: 2207 - nfi, think so, seems like it’s the go to for 45-70 in all its rebranded forms around the world. So it has that going for it.
I found TB to be rather shite for anything over 350gr. Not enough oomph. Bullets don’t really stabilise properly. At least out of a Henry. Not to mention trajectory that was borderline comedy.
Got a little bored today, thought I would start messing with 45-70 load development again and decided to do some desktop analysis, before I start fiddling in the cave.
I haven’t measured my velocity, but I have crept up to unholly levels of charge volumes and recoil. And I from looking at what people are getting with similar charge, there seems to be a consensus on 500gr cast bullets at around 1500fps.
So is it worth it… Found some kinetic energy calculator (http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php) and decided to see what would be an optimal thumper in 45-70. Keeping in mind, I am working with a short barrel, I thought I am going to go with what people report to be typical velocity 1500fps-ish and then add some other common bullet weights and at minimum recommend charge and use that velocity.
| Weight (gr) | Velocity (fps) | Energy (ft/lbs) |
|---|---|---|
| 500 | 1500 | 2498 |
| 325 | 2242 | 3628 |
| 400 | 1915 | 3258 |
Really, should have done that before, 500gr sounds like a fun idea, but noooo… Bummer. 
And of course there’s a silver lining, order a different mould and doing some casting 