Our official view is that registries are a massive WOFTAM - they don’t reduce crime, they don’t work, they’re hopelessly inaccurate, and that inaccuracy is then used as a tool to beat law-abiding firearms owners over the head with despite the issue not being their fault at all.
The police already know who has a gun licence, they already assume those people have a gun, the details beyond that are irrelevant in our view.
I didn’t say:
I said,
I think a registry conversation is a much bigger and a more nuanced conversation that just - get rid of it. I don’t support it, but ‘just getting rid of it’ has other ripple effects. Probably a really good thread to start and have a good brain storm about it.
There are few paths one can take if, let’s say, right now, LRD says, we no longer exist.
Actually, this has been covered in roundabout way in some other late night conversation. Anyway, let’s assume it’s gone.
Do we get rid of licensing and only run background checks, like they do in the US (which I think is a way more reliable system, by the way). Registry doesn’t exist any more, so there is nobody to issue or licence you. And if that’s the case, can I do a private sale of a firearm? Which then segways to regulation, so this means we completely deregulate the industry - because now I can do private sales - and I definitely don’t like private sales (private in a sense of someone selling a firearm to someone else without tracking). The gun show loophole, as it was called Stateside.
I wasn’t arguing for or against with that statement, I was pointing out that there are a lot of other factors that need to be considered (by a sane person).
Alternatively, we keep the record of sale at a shop, which can always be tracked back to a shop by a serial number, and then to an individual if needed be through financial transaction records and other records. Then, we need someone to enforce those sorts of sales, but not collect data on individuals. So, something like ATF (USA) perhaps.
Then we’d need to get rid of safety storage requirements, I am not against that, I think idiots will be idiots. I like my kids (for now) and my guns, so mine would be in a safe, regardless. But, since there is no enforcement, that rule needs to go (it’s not a control unless it can be enforced).
What I was saying is, it’s not as simple as just closing them down. The closest that could happen with no impact, is what @JSS suggested, getting rid of PTAs and just sending data to registry at time of purchase. Personally, I really don’t like that option either, but it is the lesser of two evils.
@ShootersUnion, you forgot dangerous and a real risk to community…
What people don’t realise is that data is not sold or traded immediately. Sort of like a bank robbery. The robber would hold on to the loot for some time, until it’s safe to start spending. And even then, there would be a process of safely disposing of those funds.
Stolen data is no different. Once it’s out, it’s usually detected. It may not be announced (largely illegal these days, but I am fairly certain. legally, registries don’t fall under mandatory disclosure obligations, so think about that), but usually known that it’s gone (often months or years later). There are companies that specialise in this stuff and will be paid a fee to (a) detect a data leak on the internet; and (b) socialise with all sorts of nasty elements to find what’s floating around the internet (which would otherwise be inaccessible to normal users). Sometimes (if they know what they are doing), organisations will embed specific fake data in the sea of real data, so it would be easier to find it.
Just like a bank robber, hackers will hold on to the data for a while, before selling it on to people who can make use of it. This ‘hold on’ part lasts for a few years. So you could be impacted years later, by something that happened in the registry 3, 4, 5 years ago and either never got detected or announced.
To put it into perspective for everyone, a seasoned industry expert that’s needed to work on such platforms and secure those systems makes 200%+ more money in private section, than working for the government. So you are left with a sea of really dangerous data, outdated platforms, low budget which is nowhere near enough to afford tools and skills, lack of security culture and or even understanding and the list goes on. You could already be marked as a target for 2, 3, 4 years in the future and wouldn’t know it. I hope this is enough to understand how dangerous it is.
Some examples (just a sample):
Victorian Game Authority inadvertently emailed customer data to hunters | ZDNET
The eight customers who received the emails have been contacted, and the department is confident the personal data has either been deleted or was never received due to the file size.
Mmmm, no, I don’t think so. Confident is not the same as ‘checked’.
Jack Sheahan*, who has sat on a police firearm committee in the past, said Service Tasmania was a possible weak link in the gun registration process.
In fact, example number #1 is really interesting. Usually, operators (in finance industry for example) never have access to volume of data and complete data. Yet, this jokers are emailing (by the way, email is considered an insecure channel) entire files! From their workstations! So many unanswered questions there.
I can keep going. There is absolute chaos…
Honestly, we think the best version was NZ’s laws pre-incident. Police handle the licensing, once you’ve got a licence, buy whatever you like - no permits or registry involved.
Licence the person, not the gun, basically.
Massive waves wasn’t at all a dig, just my interpretation that on a community level it would seem to create massive waves with antis and people with similar values. All that data stuff is really interesting a lot of things I’ve never thought about before! Cheers for the enlightenment! Losing the PTAs would be a great start In the right direction.
I didn’t interpreted it as a dig…
I hope they get a prolapse.
Indeed a prolapse would be welcomed