Who would of thought that the Taliban (hi ASIO) would take back large parts of Afghanistan when all the troops pulled out?
Guessing they thought the ANA, ANP troops they trained would have been able to look after things.
I think it was always the elephant in the room. The ANA/ANP are too corrupt, undisciplined, too tribal and disorganized for this expectation to be taken seriously by anyone. I think this was always known and like a band-aid… It just had to happen. China will not move in (enemy of my enemy and all that) for contracts and exploration, basically another Vietnam. It was never going to end well, Afghanistan has never been conquered. Can’t even bomb it in to stone age because they are pretty much there.
I think it’s going to end up being something like Somalia where the government really only maintains full control in the cities and either no control or limited control out in rural areas.
The Taliban have almost no support in urban areas. I know it isn’t as simple as this but if you look at it from the point of view of an illiterate Afghan farmer, your choices are the corrupt Afghan government who let their friends get away with whatever crimes they want or the Taliban who cut a limb or head off here or there but keep the peace. Not a great set of options.
It would take decades of good security, education and healthcare for a good alternative to develop and for local, rural Afghans to turn around and say A) these Taliban guys are shit and B) the other option seems to be decent, let’s support them.
I just feel sorry for young, educated Afghans who must be looking at this and just despairing. Your options are basically fight and probably die without changing anything, put up with it and accept that’s just your country and it’ll never change or leave, if you have the money and if you can find anywhere that’ll take you.
I think this is completely incorrect, @Nomis. It should read like this:
corrupt Afghan government who let their friends get away with whatever crimes they want; or the Taliban that is gets away with whatever crimes they want and chops limbs or head off here or there, invents arbitrary laws, commits systematic child abuses and supports slavery. Not a great set of options.
That’s a more accurate statement.
Charlie Wilsons War all over again…“We fucked up the end game”
It’s shit, but predictable. Alot of soldiers from many countries have lost their lives and many injured seemingly for not much gain, but i suppose the Russians could have told us that. Apparently its chaos since ISAF left
As long as they kill each other, who cares…
Point taken but I will argue with you on the child abuse. As cruel, violent and backward as they are, the Taliban are one of the very few groups in Afghanistan who have a history of actively fighing the practice of Bacha Bazi or almost ritualistic rape of young boys. Many wealthy and influential Afghan men, including government ministers, army and police commanders engage in this and the ISAF forced have copped a heap of shit for basically turning a blind eye to it. The Taliban execute those who do it. You can read more about it here Bacha Bazi: An Afghan Tragedy – Foreign Policy
The point of my original post was more that there are reasons that the Taliban get support in the rural areas and it isn’t as simple as the people living there not caring or not being smart enough to understand democracy. As fucking horrid as they are, the Taliban do hold an appeal to the people of those areas, largely because their alternatives are not great.
OK, I’ll bite.
We should care about people who aren’t us for any number of reasons. Some of them are purely practical.
A safe and prosperous Afghanistan means less chance of it being used as a base for extremists, most of whom would like to see all of us dead. It also means less chance of countries we don’t trust, such as Iran, Russia and China being able to influence the government there in order to strengthen their own geographic positions and economies.
A safe and prosperous Afghanistan also means a potential trade partner for us plus a potential ally in a region of the world where we are very short on friends. Basically, no matter how you look at it, Afghanistan not being a shithole does nothing but benefit us.
There are also moral reasons. We should not only care about people if they are “us”, whatever “us” means. The more divisions we have in the world, the more conflict we have, the more instability we have etc etc.
There are a lot of Afghans getting targeted by the Taliban today because they wanted to help us out. There are a lot of girls in Afghanistan being targeted today because they took up the opportunity to get educated, something that we promoted.
Of course, I am not so naive to think caring about each other is enough to stop bad shit from happening. The world was, is, and always will be a cruel, nasty, brutal place for a great deal of the people living in it. However, I do believe that it can be a somewhat better place if we chose to make it one and do what we can do.
Pfft I think you are over thinking it @Nomis, like REALLY over thinking it.
No, no, no. They get support because people are afraid, they have kids, wives, daughters… All of whom will be brutally punished and murdered, so they get support. It ain’t rainbows and refined selection of choices, it’s fight for survival. They get support because the alternative is death. Nothing else to it.
And MaxJon offered you a solution… Carpet bombing Flawed, does not work in the mountains, but he is trying!
Fair enough mate…but I’m not one of your students…